They are nothing but opportunist thieves. Section 1126(d) or (e), he/she believes applicant to be entitled to use such mark in commerce; to the best of his/her knowledge and belief no other person, firm, corporation, or association has the right to use the mark in commerce, either in the identical form thereof or in such near resemblance thereto as to be likely, when used on or in connection with the goods/services of such other person, to cause confusion, or to cause mistake, or to deceive; and that all statements made of his/her own knowledge are true; and that all statements made on information and belief are believed to be true. Podcast 145: An Herbalist’s Guide to Successful Self-Experimentation, Podcast 143: A Case Study: Herbs and Nightmares, Podcast 142: 4 Medicinal Mushrooms: Shiitake, Maitake, Reishi, Lion’s Mane, Podcast 141: Herbs and Grief, at the Death of the Year, Read our Privacy & Health Disclosure Here. I grow weary of these types of people/companies. I’m going to go pour myself a shot of my own schisandra turmeric fire cider, which I might rename Shire Cider and bottle on up and take to market as a play on my disdain for the trademark. No need to convince the USPTO of anything, just let it go. We are all going to need to work together to make something positive happen. These people are not part of the herbal community they are simply wannabe bussiness people. I am from northern Canada, and all of my family love this remedy! Filing Date April 20, 2012 We made it easy for you to exercise your right to vote! And it has to do with trademarking. ), There are also recurrent rumours floating around about comments and posts being deleted from the Fire Cider® Facebook page. This post was published on the now-closed HuffPost Contributor platform. It would really suck for them to remove the trademark and then have, I dunno, GNC trademark the name. Box 1450 Alexandria, VA 22313-1450, B. The decision to take action was a difficult but necessary one. I am not opposed of the company trade marking the name of their company, but I am opposed to them trade marking the product “Fire Cider” That would be like a chef saying to the rest of chefs, you can no longer call your soup Minestrone. why not trade mark the recipe just like the old patient medicine folks did in the past– this is Chief xyz Fire Cider– then there is no rip off of the historic product that anyone can make and should be able to call it by it’s traditional title. No matter WHAT you call it, it’s easy & inexpensive and there are many variations on the recipe. This predates any trademark date. This is great turn of events, and I’m hopeful we can all work together for a positive resolution! It is sad to me that getting “ownership” to a name is more important than being supportive of others with the intention of healing people and the planet. not sure if that’s come across your table. Give it up Shire. Obviously this can’t be predicted or forced, but if their product is the most widely available of its kind in main stream retailers, I imagine it will be at least somewhat successful.  No one else has devoted the time money and resources that we have, which is why we hold the trademark. That a number of other products were in fact sold in open commerce, bearing the name fire cider, before this company was founded. We use fire cider recipes and ample servings of immunity teas whenever our needs a real immunity boosting kick in the pants, but … And by doing so, they claim they’ve given this traditional spicy elixir a second meaning or “added value.” But, how can they make such a […], […] Trademarking Tradition: the Fire Cider® Controversy (yeah that’s me mentioned in the beginning of that post because I was one of the earlier people talking about the issue to bring it to folks attention…) […]. As a policy major with some experience in administrative remedy (ie – seeking a cure before legal action is needed), I would propose a course of action. This recipe -like many others- was j… There’s an opportunity here for mass awareness of an approach to staying healthy — once the name gets fine-tuned. (So the hits you are getting on your website and video are not a reason to celebrate . Trademarking or claiming rights to any product or folk remedy goes against the core foundation of herbal healing and herbalism as a system of the wise crafters among us. I’m waiting to see how this plays out, and I am overjoyed to see all the many herbalists stepping forward in outrage, solidarity and soul-ution based idea’s for Dana. Stay Tuned ya’ll, interesting times we find ourselves navigating, interesting times! They are frustrated because they feel this action is disrespectful to their traditions, their community, and their elders and teachers. Today is National Voter Registration Day! If not, we can expect the rest of our wonderfully-named traditional herbal compounds to leave us, one by one. Unfortunately, if you sell “fire cider,” since it is trademarked, you may be harming your own business as it will be considered a counterfeit without proper labeling. And it has to do with trademarking. Don’t use a cell phone whose towers are killing off birds faster than acid rain? You shouldn’t be allowed to take a traditional name for something and trademark it, thus depriving others who have already been using that term of their natural rights to do so. Same thing. However, they decided to trademark the name “fire cider”. Meanwhile, I came across this post by Darry Madden on the Fire Cider® Facebook page, which got the most direct response from the company out of several similar posts which appeared yesterday. […] and natural medicine. Upon hearing of this fire cider controversy, I thought of what he said. I think it hurts Fire Cider®’s case and will bring them more trouble than it’ll save. If you are confident in your recipe, you should just trademark your name in front of the words Fire Cider…like Sally Jo’s Fire Cider or Bob’s Authentic Fire Cider.  This means that to the general public, Fire Cider means brown bottle with a pirate on it that is made by Shire City Herbals. There should be a name associated with these terms that people want to TM instead of upsetting the apple cart that has brought them business. They took a name that was originally popularized by someone else and claimed it as their own. In 2012 the US Trademark Office issued a trademark to Shire City Herbals for exclusive use to the phrase ‘fire cider’ to describe a healing tonic of garlic, ginger, onion, horseradish, hot pepper, apple cider vinegar and raw honey. By their reasoning any person can trademark the words rhum or rum and make and market their own formulation. 99.9% of the people I talk to have never heard of Fire Cider or even the idea of a vinegar-based tonic, this is whom I’m referring to above as the general public. Fire cider is made with an apple derivative of reported medicinal benefit: apple cider vinegar. It is similar to a word or phrase being in the public domain under common law principles. This is it! Dilute the fire cider tonic with warm water, juice or apple cider. Then it becomes a generic word. What this company aspires to is sharing(selling) it nationwide (as seen from a Californian writing in). Just like Organic Gardening is a trademark and yet others continue to use the term. In the end Shire City can change, they can do what they want,,, it would cost them money, and money is the bottom line, this is a business and Shire City appears as though money is what they are after, not the health of the people. So for now, change the spelling, FYRE CYDER. I’ve heard stories of people’s great grandmas making it, so as I understand it, it’s a very old folk tradition with an introduction to the mass public in the 1970’s. As far as I can tell, this response boils down to “we were the first ones to think of trademarking the term, so we’re going to enforce it.”.  These are the people I want to reach with Fire Cider, the people I want to turn on to the power of herbal and whole foods medicine. The argument that is made in the herbalism community is that you cannot trademark a tradition, which essentially fire cider is. The Fire Cider 3 Illustration by Margarat Nee. Will they call it Fire Cider® – Four Thieves’ Formula™?  No one has contacted us to ask actual questions, the folks who’ve gotten in touch thus far have mostly seemed interested in venting, not conversation. I also studied with Rosemary and learned to make this recipe years ago and there is nothing proprietary about it.  We are 3 people who were already overworked before trying to respond to hundreds of emails and FB posts, so while we are trying to respond to all civil comments and keep communication open, we just don’t have the time to give every comment a full answer. The beauty of herbalism is that it is medicine that is available to all people because plants are used. i’m not an herbal product maker so i don’t have direct skin in the game, but i’m interested in issues like this and some of my students are apothecaries & product makers, so i’d like to have some insight into how these things play out. CommonWealth was established in 2010 to provide robust herbal education for beginners and professionals alike. There has been a bit of a trademark controversy in recent years over the name “fire cider… We have been using this and other vinegar based remedies for decades,for someone to market a corner, claim it for their own…speaks for itself. Also learn about the Fire Cider controversy, and why it should matter to you. They are a newer company (2011- I believe). Alexandria, VA 22314, The Office of the General Counsel may be reached by telephone at (571) 272-7000 during business hours.”. Surely many people throughout history have made fire cider-like remedies. Dana sent me this follow-up email today: Thanks for engaging with us in a civil manner about the issue of our trademark. They would have found another way to market and trademark their product in a way that allows for the free exchange of knowledge and handcrafted herbal medicines. check out their elixirs too! i’ve been wondering where else this is going on.  However, the realities of business require us to respond to anyone selling a product using our trademark. I agree that an organized effort to challege the trademark is the best option. What next!?!?!?!? And then I was blocked from posting again. I don’t know the company owners personally, so I won’t attempt to assume what their motives may have been or how they feel about all of this. Trademark registration is a lengthy and expensive process, taking well over a year to complete. Plus I wonder just how effective their product is as it’s massed produced. And a couple of others whos main selling point is “that this is ok because no one else did it so that makes Dana right” ARE YOU FLIPPING KIDDING? Herbalism is intrinsically about lots of people sharing, modifying, and adapting practices to their local landscape or the needs of their community. i actually hadn’t heard of that thing with Young Living until today. I agree with what Jeremy said above about trademarking their name in front of the words Fire Cider. I love to add the cider to soups, cooked veggies and homemade salad dressing. One phase of this process is checking to see if the trademark application name conflicts with an existing name as determined by the USPTO. Fire Cider Chutney Recipe. It is a weak excuse, and clearly the advise of a lawyer trying to manipulate the situation. This reminds me of the couple that TM’d the two words ‘Urban Homestead’ .. and from what I recall .. got away with it. (Sorry, just had to get that out of my system. But to my thinking, this might be a better approach that could benefit everyone. Most notably, Ryn at the Commonwealth School of Herbal Medicine in Boston, MA wrote a very detailed account, including responses from Shire City; herbalist Steph Zabel of Flowerfolk in Somerville, MA wrote a […], Could anyone tell me where I may purchase it ….but not the company in question….. OK, on the more optimistic stuff. Add to fried rice or cauliflower fried rice. We all are caretakers of the planet, but if someone wants to sell a product of their own recipe, then they should. -“Fire Cider” is indeed a term from the world of folk medicine that predates our usage of it. 99 ($2.12/Fl Oz) Save more with Subscribe & Save. To share something as if you’re the only place it can be gotten doesn’t empower people to take care of their own health; that’s not what herbalism is about. haha. […] subject abound. Look at the plethora of hot sauce names out there. However in so many arenas it just seems you can get away with putting a fence around anything that doesn’t appear to have an owner and declare it yours. But we’d be even more reluctant to delete comments in a social media setting, and I can’t condone that action if it is taking place. People who state that it is negative to go after “the almighty dollar” are often enough the same who shop at Walmart and other box stores because they are cheaper (it’s worth destroying the environment and economy to get these “adorable shoes, omg”) ), thus sending all their money to China and destroying local economy, and at the same time purchasing clothes made of polyester and acrylic (ie plastic) which will never ever ever biodegrade, and then complain about how “everyone else” is destroying the Earth. Have you heard of fire cider? I feel certain there is enough communtiy to help turn this issue around and bring more awareness to a vast communtiy connected far and wide. Fire cider is one of those home remedies that, once you make it and start passing it around, people want it. ©2020 Verizon Media. Madison Building East, Room 10B20 Really cool. They produce their “health” tonic in PLASTIC hoses and PLASTIC bins. i’m headed to bed, but i’ll make sure to go through and approve anything left here when i get up in the morning.). Fire Cider isn’t so incredibly fantastic that that name will be the only name to which people will be drawn. And sure, maybe not everyone is familiar with borscht, and perhaps yours is amazing and you are turning the general public on to it, but now all the people who make and sell borscht have to call it something else, like beet soup, which doesn’t sound as cool. Hmmmm, that kind of has a catching sound to it…maybe I’ll trademark it! (At least they left the Four out and it’s not a vinegar…). Good luck to the other companies who are also making fire cider. I’m not sure what ended up happening with it though. In the past year we’ve seen several companies pop up, calling a wide range of concoctions “Fire Cider”. Fire cider can be taken straight by the spoonful, added to organic veggie juice (throw in some olives and pickles for a non-alcoholic, healthy bloody mary! So: absolutely! It is the only compromise that is actually a compromise and would benefit everyone. Read short blurb at this link https://www.uspto.gov/faq/trademarks.jsp#_Toc275426712: Federal registration is not required to establish rights in a trademark. This, to me, would speak much more to the product’s quality and would be a better marketing tactic. They (Fire Cider®) were deleting posts because the posts were abusive. For example, by the time it is shipped clear cross country to the store near me in Northern California to be marketed and sold as a cocktail mixer, this product has consumed more resources than the locally made mix, (this is globalization in effect in our country= the cost and waist of resources do not matter, only available markets for consumer consumption) Shire City markets here to those with disposable incomes and a taste for spicey alcohol, not to those with health issues and a lack of medical coverage and support. I really think that many herbalists don’t understand trademark law and this is a big deal over nothing. I had read about fire cider in Gladstar’s books a few years before I ever heard about the trademark controversy.    I’m glad I caught this photo in my newsfeed because this story is incredible. The end result is a hot and spicy vinegar. . […] Thousands of herbalists worldwide have been using this name as a general term for decades, and it is understood that each person makes their own version of cider. Judge Mastroianni of Springfield, MA federal court has determined in a 40-page decision that fire cider is a generic term!! and also look at the activity on the. You might wonder how an herb-filled beverage could cause any sort of controversy, there is one. Thanks! First, to get it out of the way: it looks like the Fire Cider® Retail Stores page – the list of stores which carry the product – has been taken down from their website. We can all work together, because we all have these shared experiences. The challenge is when people want to be able to continue selling it in marketplaces like Itsy, they are being denied that right. That is why our application was accepted and our trademark granted. Use as a marinade for tofu, meat, etc. I have to admit that we’ve screened comments posted here on our own site, when we felt they were destructive, irresponsible, factually incorrect, and damaging to the discussion at hand. I have some sympathy for the Fire Cider® folks, here. This is the deeper issue for many of us herbalists that disagree with the trade marking = herbalism is the people medicine and has always been, and every herbalist i’ve meet does this work for the people and the health of our communities first, not to mass produce a product to be sold coast to coast and push out local producers,,, intentionally or not, thus is what is happening. US 006 018 044 046 051 052. Add your voice. Utopian maybe but I relish my herbal circles where that philosophy exists and find it sad that the legalized, commercial world is continuing to encroach on it. As they said, they were not the first to produce this vinegar, nor will they be the last. Once a stern, yet respectful letter has been drafted, submit it via the policy of the USTPO (submit with the Secretary of Commerce, and State agencies as well). It is a personal topic to see someone taking their business to the extreme, especially someone who is from Western Massachusetts and knows how strong and tightly knit the community here is around things like food security and holistic wellness. Why do herbalist who have been using the name Fire Cider for generation have to suddenly stop calling their product Fire Cider, when that is what it is. We have given out over 200 gallons of samples in the last 2 years, in person, at craft fairs, health food stores, and the Big E.  We have gone through more than 250,000 sample cups, a quarter million! For all intents and purposes, for the USPTO office, it’s like a company making up a word, trademarking it, and then saying, actually.. it’s generic. Sign up for membership to become a founding member and help shape HuffPost's next chapter. And remember how karma works. […] abound. Add to soup or chili. If too dry, add a little of the Fire Cider Vinegar to the mix. In order to obtain the Fire Cider trademark, this statement appeared above the signatures of the owners applying for the mark: The undersigned, being hereby warned that willful false statements and the like so made are punishable by fine or imprisonment, or both, under 18 U.S.C. Help please. also, check out Steph Zabel’s thoughts on this topic, here: Fired Up – FlowerFolk Herbal Apothecary. And what if they want to branch out in the future, try a different recipe on for size? How Do We Win Against COVID-19? When selling it, make up a catchy name. In general I am very strongly of the opinion that by operating on the Internet you subject yourself to certain rules of conduct, and that includes allowing disagreement and even negativity to be directed at you, without trying to wipe it away. Compile a list of herbalists (particularly ones who have a company)who are willing to submit a letter seeking administrative relief, who have either been harmed by this action, know the history of fire cider, or who are just deeply offended. -the blog author did not contact us, and your link to that was my introduction to it. Then again, I don’t have a background in marketing. I consider their defense of the “trademark” fir cider to be morally corrupt. Support our community projects with a monthly contribution! Part of HuffPost News. let me know if you want the wording altered. Â. It seems counter productive to take terms in use for many decades and allow them to suddenly be controlled by a single entity. However, fire cider created controversy a few years ago when a small herbal business that was selling the bottled tonic decided to trademark the name “fire cider”. ], Fire cider is a traditional preparation of various spicy and pungent herbs macerated in vinegar and honey.photo credit: Fire Cider by The Dabblist, on Flickr. As full time, working community herbalist, I find it very interesting that other herbalists are so upset about this. The end of summer is my most dreaded time of year. I call it theft. This term has been in use for at least three decades (long before the company’s inception in 2011), and probably longer. Jeremy, you are brilliant. However, there is a certain logic to patent , copyright and trademark law and this make far more sense than what the company in question is representing. You can take fire cider as a daily shot -- straight -- add some to your tea, a cocktail or even use it to spice salad dressings. Most notably, Ryn at the Commonwealth School of Herbal Medicine in Boston, MA wrote a very detailed account, including responses from Shire City; herbalist Steph Zabel of Flowerfolk in Somerville, MA wrote a […]. The herbs should still be somewhat firm and flavorful. (I believe all of these Facebook posts are public, so you ought to be able to click right through.) They are not herbalist. As a business, we can only have one name for our product, and that name is synonymous with a specific recipe and taste. The spouse of a PhD sociologist once told me that there are studies out there about sociological “brackets” going after their own instead of the Goliaths out there, due to the fact that they, too, hope to be a Goliath one day. Plus you can use fire cider in so many ways — from … Hopefully we won’t all bring each other down. 4.5 out of 5 stars 245. Basically, this spicy cider concoction is a tonic made by macerating (or infusing) a combination of herbs, spices, vegetables and fruits in apple cider vinegar for a month, then straining the liquid (discarding the solids) and adding honey to taste. (Source Boston Magazine May 2013). On deleting posts.. Registration Number 4260851 Fire cider is one of a very few medicinal herbal tonics that can be easily made in anyone’s kitchen using nature’s most powerful ingredients to get one of the most effective herbal remedies and tonics that the whole family can reap its amazing health benefits. If you wrote a book entitled “Herbs for Healing” that had great herbal recipes with your own special touch, wouldn’t you want it copyrighted?  We are the very first company to advertise Fire Cider to the general public, and the first to file for and receive the trademark of same. 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